Interview with Venice Poet Frank Rios – Part 2
Part 2 (see January Beachhead for Part
1)
By Hillary
Kaye
Beachhead: Is there anything else
about Philomene Long you’d like to share?
Frankie: When she did The Beats, An Existentialist
Comedy, I was involved in that. She was always a strange bird. She was outside
the tip, even though she was with Stuart [Perkoff]. When he died she went to
John [Thomas] …well I think that relationship was the best relationship
she could have, they had this connection, she started to see that the poem, that
thing where she came from having been a nun, like she was in revelation too. She
had that experience. John was very knowledgeable and was dedicated like Stuart.
And I think that’s where she got her voice. So that was really good. And
we got very close because me and John were close, well John was like my poetry
sponsor. I’d go down to Venice to their pad and we’d talk about
poetry and I’d take my work. So it was important. And then when John died
I got very tight with Philomene and we carried it
on.
Beachhead: So you stayed in
contact.
Frankie: Oh yeah. We were
supposed to do this reading & collage show at Sponto
Gallery.
Beachhead: That never came
about?
Frankie: Oh yeah it did. We were
supposed to do it together, we were talking, you know Frankie there’s
really no one that I’d like to read with but you. Yeah that’s a
great idea. Me too, I’m reading with nobody. We could do a collage show
too. I was working on these collages. I had some already because I previously
did collage shows and readings. I had some left, but I did about forty others
for this reading . That Tuesday we were supposed to meet for lunch and talk
about what we were going to do and kind of finalize it and she died that day or
that night. Too weird, too sad. I had called her the night before. Yeah, okay
I’ll see you tomorrow. So she must have died during that night or
that morning.
Beachhead: Do you want to
talk about your writing?
Frankie: Sure.
How I go about writing a poem. It’s still the same way. Usually I have the
line, the opening line. And I’m receiving it. If it don’t come all
out, if I get stuck, it don’t work. I’m good enough where I could
--
Beachhead: Fiddle with
it.
Frankie: Yeah I could make it right,
but it’s not satisfying, it’s not really the way it should be.
Everything I write has to come out clean, as I receive it. If I follow it and it
has to do with trust. But usually it’s the opening line, unless of course
I’m on a blow then one poem follows the other, then I don’t have to
think about the opening line, you know what I
mean.
Beachhead: Yes I do. I saw that you
were very moved at the memorial for Philomene the other night. Is that why you
left?
Frankie: Yeah. I left for the other
one too, for Tony.
Beachhead: Yes I
noticed
Frankie: Can’t handle
it.
Beachhead: I
understand.
Frankie: Can’t handle
it, there are too many of them, the next one I’m going to do is for me.
Shit. Well you know how it is. You can’t really dictate that
stuff.
Beachhead: Right. How is your
health?
Frankie: Very good Very
good
Beachhead : That’s
great.
Frankie: With this new
kidney, very good.
Beachhead: How many
books have you written?
Frankie:
I’ve written eleven
books.
Beachhead: Are these books
available?
Frankie: Some, here’s
how it goes. You write a book, you get the money to publish it. You publish your
book and then you do the reading. And you sell a bunch of books and you get some
of the money back. And the rest you just give them out or sell them here or
there, and that’s the way we always did
it
Beachhead: Right, right, the life of a
poet.
Frankie: Yeah you know what I
mean.
Beachhead: Do you think about your
mortality?
Frankie:
No
Beachhead: Do you think about your
poetry being read?
Frankie: Well yeah my
poetry is read.
Beachhead: Yes I
know. What I mean is do you think about it going on after you, and people still
knowing who you are and wanting
---
Frankie: Some will, some won’t.
That’s the way it is. What did Tony say, “There won’t be no
parade for us”. (Frankie laughs) So it’s all about right now,
it’s all about what you do now, every time the chance comes up I present
it and usually I get a very good response whenever I do a
reading.
Beachhead: I thought your
reading was beautiful the other
night.
Frankie: Yeah, and the one I did
at Sponto Gallery, with the collage show reading was excellent. The place was
packed. And the people just loved it. Man they just start taking the collages
off the wall. Cause I sell them real cheap so people can buy them, you know
$25.00, $50.00 for the big ones. So they just went nuts. It was really cool.
Yeah good stuff.
Beachhead: This is
a funny question, if you don’t want to answer, please feel free not to.
Were there things you liked better about yourself when you were on dope? And are
there things not being on dope that you like better about yourself now ?
I’m trying ---
Frankie: Yeah I did
everything right to get here. And I’ve done everything right to stay. I
was good at it.
Beachhead: So you enjoyed
your time being ---
Frankie: Well it
wasn’t about joy. That’s who you are, that’s it. I did the
best I could.
Beachhead: Right, I
see.
Frankie: When I look at my old
notebooks, I see across the page, pain and black, all the images of my mind,
leaked out, the angel, the death, the metamorphosis, pages and pages and then
blop the poem falls out.
Beachhead: The
poem falls out?
Frankie: Yeah a perfect
poem on the page.
Beachhead: Right,
okay.
Frankie: Dig, cause that’s
the way, The Perfect Poem, but the insanity of the drugs you dig, the mind
into the dark side, the drug- life, in truth, the Lady is pissed at
me.
Beachhead:
Because?
Frankie: Because I’m using
drugs and I’m fogging the mirror, I’m fogging the window, I’ve
forgotten the poem. I’m fogging the flow I’m trying to write the
poem. See you don’t write the poem, you receive it. It’s like way
different. So now when I look at my notebooks, every page is
clean.
Beachhead: And that’s
because why, because you’re clean
now?
Frankie: Yeah, because I’m
clean.
Beachhead: So it’s just
coming out clean.
Frankie: Yeah, I
don’t have to change anything. Once in a while when you transfer it, type
it, you might see oh if I take this line out the leap would emphasize the
next image really good. See with craft you make that choice because now
I’m into craft, not the
poem.
Beachhead: Now you’re into
craft, not the poem?
Frankie:
Yeah.
Beachhead: How’s that
possible when your into receiving
it?
Frankie: Craft is after you receive
the poem.
Beachhead: I thought
craft is like when you perfect
something.
Frankie: That’s what
I’m doing. That’s the craft. Exactly. So there’s little stuff,
oh I want to break it here, or this is the form, I see that the form it was
written in, and I didn’t complete that, it broke itself somehow, because
it’s automatic, your hand goes and sometimes you break the poem where you
shouldn’t, so you do that. Sometimes you take the word, oh I need to
emphasize that one. So that kind of craft
thing.
Beachhead: Are you sorry you
don’t live in Venice?
Frankie: Yes,
I wish I did. See when I was living in Venice on Cabrillo next to “The
Temple of Man.” I loved it, I was clean, and walking and writing. I
love Venice.
Beachhead: Who started
“The Temple of Man”?
Frankie:
Bob Alexander.
Beachhead: And what was he
like?
Frankie: He was a character, an
original, an original cut. He was with all those guys, David Meltzer, George
Herms, Altoon, Artie Richard, the San Francisco tip, the jazz clubs. Then he had
this vision of the temple, Art is Love is God, which is Wally Berman’s
sound. And for the sentient being, the free being, the one outside the society,
because the whole concept of it fit me perfect cause I never worked, voted, paid
taxes
or drove a car. Till only a few
years ago, five years ago, something like that. Seven years ago. So that was the
whole idea, not to be involved with the society, but only in the creative
act.
Beachhead: So are you political now
would you say?
Frankie: No I listen to
it, but I only voted once for Bill Clinton because his brother was a recovering
addict so I thought oh man maybe he’ll do something for us. I don’t
think he ever did anything, but that’s why I voted, once so far. The whole
thing about the political thing is it’s all big business. They control the
whole thing. You know 5 % of the people own 95 % of the world, and 95% of the
people own 5% of the world. And they got it controlled. And our government is
selling everything to China and they’re selling America.
Everything’s from China. You can’t find American products. So the
middle class is out and there’s going to be rich and poor, and
that’s how they want it, and they control the whole
thing.
Beachhead: I know. It’s
horrible.
Frankie:
Terrible.
Beachhead:
Fascism.
Frankie: Yeah, America is going
to be gone.
Beachhead: America is
gone.
Frankie: Almost. There’s
still pockets.
Beachhead: Do you ever
think of leaving the country?
Frankie:
No.
Beachhead: You’re here for the
ride.
Frankie: Oh yeah. I only got ten or
fifteen left. Eighty seven I’m probably out, Think I’m going to
become independent or free.
Beachhead: Is
there anything you’d like to cover in this article that I haven’t
asked about?
Frankie: Well just the
importance of Stuart Perkoff, Tony Scibella, Jimmy Morris, John Thomas,
Philomene Long who kind of carried the torch there. Just the idea that she was
present. And I just hope that that’s part of history, stays part of the
history.
Beachhead: I’d like to get
the library in Venice to carry all of the Venice West poets’ books. You go
to the Venice library and there’s nothing there. I think it’s a
disgrace that they aren’t there. Maybe there could be some kind of grant
to do this or have something
done.
Frankie: Well I’d like the
history to be remembered whenever anything is happening they would be able to
come up. Like being put in a library and that kind of stuff. I think we have a
lot of the art work we’ve done through the years at UCLA. I think so.
It’s always been a problem. We always talked about it. Larry Lake
---
Beachhead: That’s so funny, I
knew Larry Lake so many years ago. In fact Larry Lake and I did a poetry reading
together twenty five years ago. Maybe twenty eight years ago now that I think
about it. Is he still alive?
Frankie:
No
Beachhead: What happened to
him?
Frankie: He stepped out of the
tub and died of a heart
attack.
Beachhead: Where was he
living?
Frankie: Denver. Now his kid, I
just talked to him yesterday, he was going back to Denver for the holidays,
he’ll be back the beginning of the year. He has the trunkload full of
original copies of our work.
Beachhead:
Of art work?
Frankie: Of all the poetry
we’ve done through the years. Of course Marsha Getzler has the stash and I
have some of it. But he has the original copies,
untouched.
Beachhead: So what’s
going to be done with them?
Frankie:
He’s a writer, he loves poetry. He read at Tony’s thing, he’s
good. He’s with us.
Beachhead:
What’s his name?
Frankie: Yama
Lake
Beachhead: I notice you have a book
of Diane Di Prima? Did you know
her?
Frankie: Yeah she’s a
heavyweight, She’s done some great stuff. I was never that tight
with her. Tony was tight with her. She loved Tony, they all loved Tony. All the
girls loved Tony.
Beachhead: Did
the girls love Stuart?
Frankie: Yeah,
they all loved Stuart too. I mean they loved me too, but different. I was more
reserved. I was always looking for
love.
Beachhead: So Diane Di Prima was
crazy about Tony?
Frankie: Oh I’m
sure they did it together, but they weren’t lovers or anything like that.
Called free love.
Beachhead: Yeah that
was going on at the time.
Frankie: Yeah I
was in prison all those years anyway. From 61 to
68.
Beachhead: You were in prison
that long?
Frankie: Yeah, probably did
about ---
Beachhead: Where were you in
prison?
Frankie: Federal joint. Terminal
Island.
Beachhead: How did you handle
your time?
Frankie: Oh I did good
time.
Beachhead: What does that
mean?
Frankie: It means I knew how to do
time. I probably did eleven years all
together.
Beachhead: So when you said you
did good time you mean you
read....
Frankie: Yeah read, wrote. I had
a good tip, a good job, I knew how to
jail.
Beachhead: And what gave you that
kind of ---
Frankie:
Experience.
Beachhead: To be able to
handle it in that kind of way.
Frankie:
Going to jail. I’m a guy, stand up and all that. I got all the history, I
got the credentials.
Beachhead: Right.
But somebody can do time and go insane, and somebody can do time and really use
it as a period of real growth and learning. You can do time in a lot of
different ways.
Frankie: That’s
right. Like when Stuart came he didn’t know how to do
time.
Beachhead: So he was really
suffering.
Frankie: Yeah when I got there
I just took him under my wing and brought him into the tip and everything
changed.
Beachhead: So you guys were
there together?
Frankie: Yeah we walked
the yard together for a long
time.
Beachhead: That’s
incredible.
Frankie: Yeah it was great.
We had conversations that were unbelievable about poetry and the Lady Muse, what
to read and all that stuff.
Yeah we had a
nice trip. That was a good
time.
Beachhead: Because you could really
focus.
Frankie: Yeah there are people
that really dig each other, and we guard each other’s backs. When
it’s a Federal joint it’s a lot easier than if it’s a State.
There aren’t too many gunsels. Guys that are trying to make a reputation.
Everybody in a Federal joint got a heavy beef. And you know they were older and
they were there just to do their
time.
Beachhead: Where can people get
your poetry?
Frankie: You want to
take some things to Beyond
Baroque?
Beachhead: I’d be happy to
do that.
Posted: Fri - February 1, 2008 at 03:06 PM
