Interview with Venice Poet Frank Rios - Part 1
By Hillary
Kaye
Beachhead: I’m
nervous.
Frank T. Frank T. Rios: Of
course you are, you
care.
Beachhead: Thank you for saying
that Frankie. O.K. This is the Frank T. Rios interview. I’m in his home.
Thank you Frankie for doing this interview.
Frank T. Frank T. Rios: You’re very
welcome.
Beachhead: I wanted to ask you
how you discovered Venice?
Frank T. Frank
T. Rios: Well I hitchhiked here in 54 from New York. …..on the road
type thing…. and came to Venice and spent a year. I really loved it. In
January of 59 I hopped a plane and came out here. And I think part of it in
truth I was trying to escape.
Beachhead:
Escape your past, your history?
Frank T.
Rios: Well I was involved in a lot of gangster stuff. You know stick ups, that
kind of stuff.
Beachhead: What area of
New York were you from?
Frank T. Rios:
The Bronx. But see I studied acting. And from acting one of the classes I had
was doing the monologue and everybody was doing the classic monologue. But I
found American poetry and within it I found “The Man with the Hoe”
by Edwin Markham. And I had a really good memory. And I memorized the poem and
it hit me like whoah so I started to
write.
Beachhead: That’s when you
began writing?
Frank T. Rios: Yeah and
the first poem I ever wrote was the “Ball” poem which is a beautiful
poem. I mean it’s right there. I don’t think I changed anything. It
just came out.
Beachhead: That’s
cool.
Frank T. Rios: So inside I knew, I
didn’t think that I was a poet but something had started to shift. So when
I got out here---
Beachhead: So where did
you study acting?
Frank T. Rios:
Neighborhood playhouse.
Beachhead: With
Sanford Meisner?
Frank T. Rios: Yes. I
did some plays Tennessee Williams …those kind of things.And I was pretty
good.
Beachhead: You have a lot of
presence.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah I had stage
presence. And I had a really good memory so I could play with it. And when I got
out here in 59. You know I feel I was being guided. It couldn’t be any
other way because it’s not like I’m thinking I need to go here or I
need to do this.
Beachhead: I’ve
always felt that about my life too, that I had no choice that I was being
guided.
Frank T. Rios: Right guided. I
was guided to Venice West. And it’s a poetry
reading.
Beachhead: That’s when you
first got there?
Frank T. Rios: Yeah.
It’s a poetry reading, and who’s reading Stuart Perkoff. He’s
reading and I’m like, I know exactly what he’s
doing.
Beachhead: Yeah you’re right
with him.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah I’m
right with him. So the next day I’m walking down the beach and I meet
Stuart.. And we start talking, you know, and it was instant, the connection. So
then I’m thinking I’m going to do a reading here. So I sat down and
wrote about 50 poems.
Beachhead: It
just came right out?
Frank T. Rios:
Well it took me 4 months. And 90% of those stand up today. I was really
receiving it.
Beachhead: That’s
great!
Frank T. Rios: And then of
course I met Tony and it was the Holy
Three.
Beachhead: The Holy Three! How
interesting.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah we got a
little scared about that.
Beachhead:
Because.
Frank T. Rios: Well
---
Beachhead:
Right.
(Rios laughs and then Hillary
laughs)
Frank T. Rios: Yeah and then The
Holy Barbarians came out by Lawrence
Lipton.
Beachhead: What did you think of
Lawrence Lipton?
Frank T. Rios: I never
had any beef with him. He was scared of me. He thought I was a gangster and drug
dealer.(laughs) Which I was, but not when I got to
LA.
Beachhead:
Right.
Frank T. Rios: And I moved to
Venice. Cause I hung everything
up.
Beachhead: You
did?
Frank T. Rios: But I was still
using. We all were.
Beachhead: Everybody
was using heroin?
Frank T. Rios:
No.
Beachhead: You were using
heroin?
Frank T. Rios: Yeah I mean. I
hung up the bag for a while, and got out here, you know kicked, start
taking bennies and smoking
grass.
Beachhead:
Right.
Frank T. Rios: You know downers.
You know what was there. I wasn’t running anything. I wasn’t
--
Beachhead: What was
available.
Frank T. Rios: What was
available, right. Tussar. We took
Tussar.
Beachhead:
Right.
Frank T. Rios: The whole thing
then wasn’t so much the drugs, it was the creative act. You know we were
all totally broken open. I was ordained, in 1959 in Topanga Canyon by the Muse,
the lady, by the poem.
Beachhead: Could
you explain a little about that?
Frank T.
Rios: Yes. I was sitting in this beautiful pad in Topanga Canyon where Aya was
living.
I was blowing. We had our stuff,
crayons, pens and notebooks. Anywhere we’d go we had our stuff. Of course
we moved around like that. And I’m blowing and blowing and like it’s
a beautiful. I get chills now just thinking about it. And I go outside and
it’s a beautiful night, like I’m there and I, I’ve found my
path. And I’m elated. She comes to me, she comes right up to me and
touches my tongue, and I burst into flames. And she tells me I’m ordaining
you a poet and I’m giving you the ritual of the poem burning to honor me
which is the invocation to the muse. So I fall back inside and I write
this invocation. Oh God Lady Mother of the Poem, it’s coming out that way
because she touched me. And I burned
it.
Beachhead: You burned
it?
Frank T. Rios: Oh
yeah.
Beachhead: So you don’t have
a copy of that?
Frank T. Rios: No I
burned it for her. It was just for her. All the poems I burn for her. No one
else sees it. And I’m watching the poem burn down, burn down into a tiny
black ash and the ash blows over me. And there I am on kind of a tongue of a
mountain You know it’s a mountain but there’s this kind of a tongue
coming out and I’m standing on the tongue and I’m an old man now and
I’ve got the book under my arm. So for her after that anytime I do a
reading, anytime I do marriages, anytime I bless a house. I do it through the
poem, the ritual of the poem
burning.
Beachhead: That’s why you
burned the poems at the Philomene Long and Tony Schbella
memorials?
Frank T. Rios: Right.
Nice, huh.
Beachhead: It is. I mean
it’s powerful.
Frank T. Rios:
Yes you’re really receiving
it.
Beachhead: I
see.
Frank T. Rios: It’s elating,
it’s magical.
Beachhead: Right.
It’s all pretty clear.
Frank T.
Rios: Very clear. So when I’m writing that before I become ordained,
I’m finally writing it. Being a throwaway and all that stuff. I mean being
alone and outside, and no mother, no father because she threw me away, it's like
the tears, but I’m getting it out for the first time in my
life.
Beachhead: That’s very
moving.
Frank T. Rios: So after that then
I get ordained and the cleansing happens and she’s able to touch me. Yeah
that’s why I still do
it.
Beachhead: Are you still
writing?
Frank T. Rios: Yeah I started a
new book. I write at night.
Beachhead:
Are you a night owl?
Frank T. Rios: No
I’m up till 11. I’m up at seven, work
out.
Beachhead: You keep in good
shape
Frank T. Rios: I try. I’m 72
you know.
Beachhead: When did you meet
Philomene?
Frank T. Rios: I met Philomene
when Stuart died. She was with
Stuart.
Beachhead: At the
end?
Frank T. Rios: Yeah. I was in
Denver.
Beachhead: You had left
Venice.
Frank T. Rios: We all were in
Denver. Stuart came too, but his parole officer wouldn’t let him stay and
he had to come back.
Beachhead: How did
you happen to go to Denver?
Frank T.
Rios: Well Jimmy Marrios was the first one who went to
Denver.
Beachhead: And you all
followed?
Frank T. Rios: Yeah he started
the Mile High Underground. Denver was virgin territory. We stepped in and
took over. Real poets. So we had the bookstores, recordstores, and we were
hooked into the theatres.
Beachhead: What
a great scene.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah, we
had a really beautiful scene . We had the bar. The Lido lounge. We
gathered
and we would get insane
and write poetry.
Beachhead: How many
years was it that you were in that scene that went from Venice to Denver and
then back to Venice again?
Frank T. Rios:
There’s no break. I’m still doing it, the location doesn’t
matter. Like that picture there was Denver, I mean it was an apex of it. There
was a Venice apex and then a Denver apex and then Venice
again.
Beachhead: But when did that
Venice scene --
Frank T. Rios: That
original Venice scene broke around
63.
Beachhead: So you were aware at the
time what an ephemeral and magical situation you were
in.
Frank T. Rios: Oh
yeah.
Beachhead: And you all
were?
Frank T. Rios: Oh yeah. There was
no doubt. The three of us were in the throws of magic. And ritual and a certain
kind of illusion, of course embodied with the creative
act.
Beachhead:
Right.
Frank T. Rios: You see we were
madly just receiving it.. And some great stuff came from
there.
Beachhead: Now in terms of women
was Philomene the only female
present?
Frank T. Rios: Philomene
wasn’t there yet.
Beachhead: She
wasn’t there yet. So it was all
men.
Frank T. Rios: No there were
women.
Beachhead: I mean there were
women, but were there women poets?
Frank
T. Rios: Yeah, oh yeah. Of course there wasn’t just a circle in Venice,
you see it was America, because actually the circle wasn’t that big, so we
were connected to San Francisco with all those guys and then we had Wally Berman
and George Herms, John Altoon. It goes on and on. Everyone’s connected.
Cause you wind up anywhere, any day. You know what I mean. You wake up in the
morning and you got no idea how it’s going to unfold. We ain’t got
no money. It’s not like we got plans. The only plan I’ve got is
I’ve got my notebook and my stuff. I ain’t looking out see,
I’m looking in.
Beachhead: Right.
So is that how your life is today? Are you still in that state, or are you more
engaged in the world?
Frank T. Rios: No,
more engaged in my recovery and my relationship and my relationships. I mean
everybody knows I’m a poet, Frankie the poet. I write and do my thing.
That’s just automatic. What’s different today is I’m not
pressed against it. I don’t got to write. You know what I
mean.
Beachhead: Yes I know what you
mean. Is that your painting ?
Frank T.
Rios: No, that’s Bryden's, he lives in
Taos.
Beachhead: Interesting
painting.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah he’s
a good friend. I once shot him. He was across the room, it was a long room. And
I had a piece under my pillow and he wanted something, he wanted a bag, a bag of
heroin. He kept bugging me and bugging me and there’s this huge painting
on the wall. C’mon Frankie give me something, and I just (blam) and the
bullet went right above his
head.
Beachhead: That was
close.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah I missed him
by that much (indicating an inch). We made amends. And he’s clean
too, you know a long time.
Beachhead:
That’s all behind you---
Frank T.
Rios: Yes I’m sorry, thank God I missed
him.
Beachhead: Do you paint in
color?
Frank T. Rios:
No.
Beachhead: Collage and black and
white.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah and I draw a
little bit.
Beachhead: I love your
drawings in “ The Kid in the Woods”. Is that
rapidograph?
Frank T. Rios: It’s
just a pen.
Beachhead: Did you ever go to
art school?
Frank T. Rios:
No.
Beachhead: What artists do you
like?
Frank T. Rios: Well you know
Jackson Pollock, Altoon. I love Franz Kline you know, the ash can school all
those guys.
Beachhead: Why
“The Kid in the America” and “Kid in the Woods”
What is the thing with kid? Is there a connection that both you and Tony
Scibella had a title with that in
it.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah I think there is.
I was never sure because I just received it, you know, because “The Kid in
the Woods” is he’s drawn to the giant oak. See the giant oak is
where the lady is splattered against, and the lady holds all the poems, so he
needs to go into the woods.
Beachhead:
Right.
Frank T. Rios: Right. And that The
kid probably a subconscious thing was from Tony since he worked on the thing so
long with “The Kid in America”
.
Beachhead: I never quite asked
you what you thought of Philomene Long. I interrupted you I think. You met her
after Stuart died
Frank T. Rios: You know
when she came, you know being with Stuart and that whole thing that was so
heavy. So heavy Stuart died.
Beachhead:
It must have been.
Frank T. Rios: Also
Stuart dying closed the door for
us.
Beachhead: What do you mean closed
the door for us ?
Frank T. Rios: I mean
he was our front man. He had a way of getting into the acknowledged poets and
artists. I could never do that, since I was the gangster poet and Tony was very
quiet, so Stuart was the guy.
(Frank goes
to answer the phone. He returns)
Frank T.
Rios: So what was I saying?
Beachhead:
I’m lost, oh yeah, he was the leader, the one who opened the
doors.
Frank T. Rios: Yeah Stuart opened
the doors. So Philomene was there with him.And gone with him. So that’s
how I met her. And of course she went with John, John Thomas. I knew John from
‘59, all the way back.
Beachhead:
What did you think of them
together?
Frank T. Rios: They were like a
dedicated beat couple who would live in poverty for the rest of their lives and
write poems and be Zen.
Beachhead: Are
you Zen? You seem like a very spiritual person. I can see that in your writing.
Are you religious or are you
spiritual?
Frank T. Rios: No I’m
not religious, I’m spiritual. Probably leaning more to being a Buddhist,
higher self and that stuff.
Beachhead:
Right, I see.
Frank T. Rios: But I have
my muse.
(Part two of the Frank T. Rios
interview to be continued next issue.)
Posted: Tue - January 1, 2008 at 03:58 PM
